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NoxiousOT 8.60 >> Server Support >> House system abuse
December 12, 2018, 6:46 am
Anonymous
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House system abuse

This has been happening a lot lately, players uses their bot accounts in order to hoarder houses and sometimes ask for even higher prices (some sort of blackmail). i have tried to buy more than 22 inactive houses and each time there are lots of bots that buy the houses. this happens nearly in all cities. For example today you can see the picture here, 3 characters bots and you can check their ips and their character pages. So normal players have only few options ( buy very small houses or try your luck with one of the hoarders ). Please help with such thing.

[img]https://imgur.com/a/SCYvTOC[/img]

Post was edited; 12th Dec 2018 at 06:47:03. Reason: wrong character

December 14, 2018, 2:02 pm
Bad User
Join Date: Jun. 2012
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 227
Guild: Filthy Handz of Bust My Cherry
Posts: 739

Hey,

It does suck when this happens.
Back in the day, whole guilds would login and fight over houses. This would make it impossible for guildless players to get any 'good' houses without buying them.

It's hard to believe you've tried to buy 22 houses and failed. You're probably doing something wrong vs these bots.
It looks like your guild member, or your other character, was able to grab a house. Criticalshot. Maybe you could use his house? :)



I'm sure you're probably aware, but you can search for inactive houses here:
http://www.noxiousot.com/index.php?subtopic=houses

As of today,
There are a total of 487 houses in this catagory. A total of 86 houses have inactive owners.
6 houses are inactive in thais.
(Including the Greenshore Village 6, which has 94 sqm; and the Fibula Village, Tower Flat, which has 72 sqm.)


As for the bots; one thing you can try to do is push them. It looks like you tried, but they had anti push. If you had elfbot, you could use pushmax and push them. Of course, if the player's actually there they'll be able to move the character(s) back in place; and if you're not good enough your efforts will be futile.

Another option is to kill them. Issue is they're Knights, and they'd probably still be able to get the house before you drained there potions; especially if they're setup to auto pot each other. (although that's considered mc pvp, you'd have to have a staff member online to see and ban them.)




There's a few ways the staff could combat this, if they wanted to but any method they try always brings up other issues.

1. Prevent any player from buying a house if they are 'in combat'. This would prevent people from just afking a bot there.
Although this could also cause people to just sit around a house and grief anyone else trying to get it too.

2. Check the IP of anyone trying to buy a house and compare it with all other houses. This would prevent idiots from owning multiple houses, but anyone with half a brain would just swap there IP while trying to buy the house.

3. Instead of the in game command to buy the house from inactive players, make an auction on the website. After 30 days of inactivity, the house goes to auction on the website and players can bid tokens to purchase it. The auction could last 3 days, or 7 days. Only allowing players to use tokens allows player who don't donate the chance to get house from playing lots of events. It also means people can't just donate and auto win any auction. (they'd have to donate then try to buy tokens from people before they could bid).
This could drive house prizes up, although they're probably already too high. It would also force only the wealthy players to get the houses anyways, and they might already own one.

4. And finally, they could just enforce there rules.
4a. You can only have one house per person and you must login every 30 days to keep it. Some exceptions apply.
4b. If you login once every month for only a few minutes just to keep your house then the staff might give it to somebody else.

So, let the bots take the houses. Report them to the staff and get them cleared. The staff could then warn these players to not buy multiple houses; and if they continue to do so they'll continue to get cleared. If it persists, ban the accounts with characters specifically created to buy house from inactive players with the sole intent to make profit.
Issue with this option is, the server is already dying; if they start enforcing rules too hard more players will quit.



Anyways, that's my thoughts.
Last edited by GM Nexus; 16th Dec 2018 at 12:28:04.

December 14, 2018, 2:22 pm
Bad User
Join Date: Jun. 2012
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 227
Guild: Filthy Handz of Bust My Cherry
Posts: 739

Oh, as a side note; my guild still owns the Halls of the Adventurers (Guild Hall). (Originally created by me this era and transfer 'ownership' of the guild to slow roasted, who quit.) Its north of thais. IF you want it, contact a staff member and get them to remove Bust My Cherry's ownership.

Just remember you need to make it an active guildhall, by getting more guild members.

December 16, 2018, 11:06 am
Anonymous
Only visible to staff

Darth Maul wrote on December 14, 2018, 2:02 pm:
Hey,

It does suck when this happens.
Back in the day, whole guilds would login and fight over houses. This would make it impossible for guildless players to get any 'good' houses without buying them.

It's hard to believe you've tried to buy 22 houses and failed. You're probably doing something wrong vs these bots.
It looks like your guild member, or your other character, was able to grab a house. Criticalshot. Maybe you could use his house? :)


I'm sure you're probably aware, but you can search for inactive houses here:
http://www.noxiousot.com/index.php?subtopic=houses

As of today,
There are a total of 487 houses in this catagory. A total of 86 houses have inactive owners.
6 houses are inactive in thais.
(Including the Greenshore Village 6, which has 94 sqm; and the Fibula Village, Tower Flat, which has 72 sqm.)


As for the bots; one thing you can try to do is push them. It looks like you tried, but they had anti push. If you had elfbot, you could use pushmax and push them. Of course, if the player's actually there they'll be able to move the character(s) back in place; and if you're not good enough your efforts will be futile.

Another option is to kill them. Issue is they're Knights, and they'd probably still be able to get the house before you drained there potions; especially if they're setup to auto pot each other. (although that's considered mc pvp, you'd have to have a staff member online to see and ban them.)




There's a few ways the staff could combat this, if they wanted to but any method they try always brings up other issues.

1. Prevent any player from buying a house if they are 'in combat'. This would prevent people from just afking a bot there.
Although this could also cause people to just sit around a house and grief anyone else trying to get it too.

2. Check the IP of anyone trying to buy a house and compare it with all other houses. This would prevent idiots from owning multiple houses, but anyone with half a brain would just swap there IP while trying to buy the house.

3. Instead of the in game command to buy the house from inactive players, make an auction on the website. After 30 days of inactivity, the house goes to auction on the website and players can bid tokens to purchase it. The auction could last 3 days, or 7 days. Only allowing players to use tokens allows player who don't donate the chance to get house from playing lots of events. It also means people can't just donate and auto win any auction. (they'd have to donate then try to buy tokens from people before they could bid).
This could drive house prizes up, although they're probably already too high. It would also force only the wealthy players to get the houses anyways, and they might already own one.

4. And finally, they could just enforce there rules.
4a. You can only have one house per person and you must login every 30 days to keep it. Some exceptions apply.
4b. If you login once every month for only a few minutes just to keep your house then the staff might give it to somebody else.

So, let the bots take the houses. Report them to the staff and get them cleared. The staff could then warn these players to not buy multiple houses; and if they continue to do so they'll continue to get cleared. If it persists, ban the accounts with characters specifically created to buy house from inactive players with the sole intent to make profit.
Issue with this option is, the server is already dying; if they start enforcing rules too hard more players will quit.



Anyways, that's my thoughts.


Thank you for taking your time to answer me and regarding Critical shot this is my sister account and we can't login both in same time using same PC (she was lucky to get that house :D) while for my case it was almost always bots against me. Also while maybe what you suggested is true, there should be some new rule that can be used to identify the unused houses,for example: is it only inactive days(not enough alone) and maybe no decorations , etc... regarding guild halls , i am trying to find new active members before i try to get any guild halls.
Post was edited; 16th Dec 2018 at 12:27:52.

December 16, 2018, 12:02 pm
Moderator
Join Date: Apr. 2017
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 63
Guild: Member of Noxious Staff
Posts: 114

Hello,

I feel that I should reply to you from a Staff standpoint. People holding several houses while being one person is a real concern of mine and by extent the rest of Staff.

You can walk through Thais and regularly see (almost) empty houses. When I investigate a house I see that's not being used, it turns out that it's someone's 2nd, 3rd or even 4th house. Sometimes in the same city...

Firstly, it is already against the rules to hold more than one house per person: "You can only have one house per person and you must login every 30 days to keep it. Some exceptions apply.".

Secondly, it is also unfair towards people who would like to have a chance on getting a house in the most important city of the server.

Please note: the last part of the quoted rule ("some exceptions apply") should not immediately be understood to clear someone for holding another house within the same city, even if they intend to use it. Having a second house in another city is arguably less disruptive yet technically still illegal.

Thirdly, the rules also explicitely say that trying to profit off of guildhalls is illegal. In my mind this extends to house sales where this is someone's 2nd, 3rd or higher house. Then they just got the house to sell it off for profit without even using it. Clearly not the intended purpose of the rules.

As with every rule that might be broken, it is all about the intent that people have when getting a second house. Someone who gets a second house because they want to give it away to a friend as a present is different from people getting it just to sell it after a few months for profit. In addition, people getting houses to never use them also beat the purpose of what houses are meant to be used for.

We could look at every house on a case-to-case basis, but clearly empty or almost empty houses break the rule as it is intended to be used.

I will take this post to our Staff conversation and we'll discuss it. I will let you know about the outcome from our discussion.

GM Nexus
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Unofficial NoxiousOT Wiki: https://wiki.noxiousot.eu
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December 16, 2018, 1:00 pm
Bad User
Join Date: Jun. 2012
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 227
Guild: Filthy Handz of Bust My Cherry
Posts: 739

You both point out undecorated houses.
This should NOT be a factor of removing a house from a player if they only own ONE house. Some players may buy a house to decorate it. Other players may use a house for friends to gather and talk around, and some houses can be used/bought for pvp purposes.

Houses that have multiple people coming and going typically get trashed, and decorations removed; so I don't typically decorate these sorts of houses.

In the case of pvp purpose house, they could be used to trap people; and multiple people might have access.
They might also be used to throw gear into if you get a Red Skull; so you might not even have anyone else invited, but players might want to be able to keep their equipment safe if they do get a red skull.



Looking at every house on a case-to-case basis and applying different rules where you see fit shouldn't be your option. Figure out rules, and use them as a blanket statement across the server.

I.e.
Person A has 4 houses but they're all decorated and have multiple friends coming and going from it.
Person B has 2 houses undecorated and no-one else is invited.
Person C has 2 houses decorated with other players coming and going.

In my opinion, by the current rules; all 3 players should be warned to give away multiple houses within a week (so they are each left with 1), and if they fail to do so they lose them.
Of course they can easily give them to friends and still use it if they wanted to.



It's also very easy to 'fake' decorate a house with cheap items. So if this becomes a consideration it'll be easy to 'decorate' it enough to claim its fully decorated.




Houses are used for different reasons.
Decorating a house is only 1 reason to buy and keep a house and shouldn't be the sole determination of whether players should own and keep them.





As a side note, if people are trying to make a profit from houses, why not make paying rent every month a thing. Pay x tokens per month to keep a house.
This might increase house prices, but it might also make it less desirable to players who are just trying to make a quick profit.
Last edited by Darth Maul; 16th Dec 2018 at 13:06:18.

December 16, 2018, 2:10 pm
Moderator
Join Date: Apr. 2017
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 63
Guild: Member of Noxious Staff
Posts: 114

Hello,

Nobody is trying to take away houses from people when it's their only house and they're active players. I didn't intend that nor did I claim that.

I'll admit that my last paragraph might be ambiguous so I'll clarify: I mentioned 'empty houses' because they are most often secondary houses in my personal experience. But it's the fact that they are secondary, tertiary or even quaternary that should be the criterion for potential removal; not that they're empty or not.

The rules should, in my opinion, be applied as they stand right now:

- One per person (that's per individual, not per account).
- You cannot keep it by logging on for a few minutes once in a while so that the 30 day inactivity timer restarts.

These should be the only and the absolute criteria.

So I agree that in all 3 scenarios above, the owners should be warned and the supplementary houses should be removed after a short period of time until all of them have only one house per person.

If someone chooses to have only one house and wants it empty, such is their perogative.

I think charging monthly rent is possible, but it has to be in gold unless the server engine is rewritten. And as we both know, gold is easy to come by anyway.

If we don't want people to profit, then we can also just make a rule against that. But even if we don't: if someone wants to buy a house for profit, then by our rules as they stand this would mean that they would have to leave any current house they have and only hold the house they intend to buy and then sell for profit. Essentially it would leave said person houseless except for the house they want to resell.

In any case, it's good to see a healthy discussion here for once. That's exactly what we want to see happen. :p

Last edited by GM Nexus; 16th Dec 2018 at 14:14:08.

GM Nexus
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Unofficial NoxiousOT Wiki: https://wiki.noxiousot.eu
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December 16, 2018, 2:20 pm
Bad User
Join Date: Jun. 2012
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 227
Guild: Filthy Handz of Bust My Cherry
Posts: 739

GM Nexus wrote on December 16, 2018, 2:10 pm:
In any case, it's good to see a healthy discussion here for once. That's exactly what we want to see happen. :p

Oh, you're right; this is tibia.


Get fucked stupid GM. Want more flame? Post again kid.

December 16, 2018, 2:24 pm
Moderator
Join Date: Apr. 2017
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 63
Guild: Member of Noxious Staff
Posts: 114

Thanks for that, I almost lost faith in Tibia.

Anyway, as I said I'll be discussing this with the other Staff and we'll probably get to something soon.

I'll let you know.

Last edited by GM Nexus; 16th Dec 2018 at 14:25:15.

GM Nexus
Gamemaster

Unofficial NoxiousOT Wiki: https://wiki.noxiousot.eu
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December 17, 2018, 6:53 am
Anonymous
Only visible to staff

Darth Maul wrote on December 16, 2018, 2:20 pm:
GM Nexus wrote on December 16, 2018, 2:10 pm:
In any case, it's good to see a healthy discussion here for once. That's exactly what we want to see happen. :p

Oh, you're right; this is tibia.


Get fucked stupid GM. Want more flame? Post again kid.

You crack me up :D

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